Yes, you can be queer. And live with disability. And identify as Aboriginal. And…

Transcript

Chantelle Ellem 00:21

Welcome to Season One of Feros talks Unsaid, Untold. I’m Chantelle Ellem, also known as Fat Mum Slim. In collaboration with aged care and disability service provider, Feros care.

We’re here to tell the stories no one else tells, give space to the people who haven’t previously been heard. Sometimes it’s uncomfortable. And sometimes it’s even controversial, but it’s always passionate, interesting and ready to unravel a fresh conversation, shifting the way we see diversity and inclusion in Australia.

Intersexuality if you haven’t heard of it, it’s what happens when various aspects of a person’s identity, can expose them to multiple forms of discrimination. We know for example, that a queer person may have a very different lived experience in the world than someone who identifies as heterosexual. But what if that queer person is also exposed to racism because of their color or ethnicity? What if they also live with a disability? And what if they also grew up in a lower socio economic area? The answer is simple. Life’s probably a lot harder for them. With an increased level of inequality, and inclusion comes more systemic barriers, more social isolation, and a greater risk of everything from violence to mental health issues. The solutions aren’t nearly as simple, but having conversations about Intersexuality is an important step. And that’s what Feros Care is here to do. Joining us on the podcast today we have Rianna Nisbet and Malcolm Tamwoy. Welcome to both of you. Thank you so much for joining me today. Rianna, I’ll start with you. Tell us about yourself and what you do with Feros Care.

Rianna Nisbet 02:06

Yeah, so my name is Rianna, and I am a First Nations Community Development Coordinator. So I’m out in the community a lot working with our mob to- For them to get better access to the NDIS. And to make Townsville a more inclusive place. Yeah, just doing my part.

Chantelle Ellem 02:27

That’s great. And Malcolm, how about you? Can you tell us about your background and what you do for Feros Care as well.

Malcolm Tamwoy 02:33

So my background- So what I do, I’m a First Nation LAC, Local Area Coordinator. So I work close with Ria as well. So we also assist them, I’ve been getting access to NDIS.

Chantelle Ellem 02:49

And so what is the day to day look like for you in the role that you’re doing?

Rianna Nisbet 02:54

So for me, every single week is completely different in my role, because I’m in community development. The community needs change every week. So just this week alone. After we finish our podcast, we’re going over to the Aboriginal Medical Center, and we’re working there for the day with our mob, helping them access the NDIS yesterday, we went to a truth and treaty yawns where MC Gouda [phonetic 03:21] and the treaty mob from Queensland led the discussions in the Queensland, Queensland treaty bill that’s being passed to Parliament and how that will look for our mob. And then next week, we are off, we’re going down to Bowen [phonetic 03:35]. So everything changes, every week we get, we’re out in the community a lot. So yeah, it’s a very unpredictable job if you like the constant, this job probably wouldn’t be for you. Because we work with what the community wants, not with what we want to do.

Chantelle Ellem 03:53

Yeah, so No Day is the same.

Rianna Nisbet 03:55

No Day’s the same. Yeah, it’s very different. The only thing that’s constant is that we’re working with our mob in community and attending everything and getting in there and finding out what our community needs because we’re the voice for them inside the NDIS.

Chantelle Ellem 04:12

So as a society, we’ve made progress in many ways. However, there’s still a long way to go in many other ways. For example, we’re recording this conversation in March 2023, after seeing awful reports of anti trans and Neo Nazis crashing a trans rights rally in Melbourne. And I’m sure both of you have many examples of discrimination and bigotry that you can speak to but have you faced discrimination in the past and how do you see your loved ones or participants continuing to face discrimination?

Rianna Nisbet 04:38

I think that discrimination is an everyday occurrence. We’re kind of used to it like I said, I’ve got what they call passing privilege. So, you know, my nanny calls me creamy, but y’all have passing privilege. Yes. So I get a lot of- Not directed at me, but in his verdant racism where people are racist around me not realizing that I’m a Jury [phonetic 05:08] woman, I’m strongly connected to my culture and identify as an Aboriginal woman. So that can be quite, that’s very traumatic, and then being the minority in the crowd and not having the- Not feeling comfortable or safe to speak up and saying, hey, you need to stop. You know, they think it’s okay to say stuff in front of you. And then, I think a lot of mental health too, in our community, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, the mental health is seen. It’s not a nice area. I don’t know how to explain it. And mental health is probably the biggest issue in our community. And I think sometimes people can be having, like psychotic episodes, and people are thinking that they’re drunk, or they’re high on drugs, and they’re not actually, they’re having a mental health crisis, but because they don’t look deeper, and they just see the color of the skin. They’re not actually acknowledging our mob with psychosocial disabilities there. Yeah, disregarding that–

Chantelle Ellem 06:18

Do you think it gets easier to have a voice– As you get older, like, do you think that you say, well go back to that scenario that you’re talking about in the crowd where you just don’t feel like you could speak up? Do you feel like you have more of a voice now than you did back when you were 18 or younger?

Rianna Nisbet 06:34

Yeah, I had more confidence now to speak up much more. When I was younger, I wouldn’t have said boo, to a ghost. But now, I’m a lot more loud and open. And I just don’t care what people think anymore. I just– I am who I am. And I’m very comfortable in my own skin. I credit that fully to the people that I work with. And I also credit that to my daughter, because I’ve had to be a huge advocate for her. I might be [unintelligible 06:57] mum. So my daughter is identified as part of the LGBTQIA+SB community. And so having to advocate for her constantly, has made me a lot more confident to advocate for myself. Yeah. So what about email?

Chantelle Ellem 07:15

And that’s great as a leader in the community, as well, to show others that you- I’m doing it this way, hopefully give them a bit more of a chance to have a voice as well.

Rianna Nisbet 07:23

Definitely.

Malcolm Tamwoy 07:24

Yeah, I guess with myself, it’s all about I feel confident now. If I was to say something, whereas before, it’s about being shame. I don’t want to say anything. So more outspoken now about it. Who I am and how I guess I would tackle racism. I actually identifies by both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander say [phonetic 07:45]…

Chantelle Ellem 07:46

And what impacts have you seen when multiple layers of discrimination are heaped upon one person which maybe your daughter might have some experience in this as well? Right, like, what risks might may increase when someone has that multiple layers-

Rianna Nisbet 07:59

Definitely mental health issues. It’s very hard. My daughter has struggled for many years with her mental health. And I think it’s just a matter of trying to find who she is. As a cultural aspect of trying to find who she is and working that out, and then having a psychosocial disability. It is a very difficult space to navigate as a teenager. And it’s been very hard as a parent to watch that. Malcolm and I were just talking about this yesterday, and we know someone in the community who has spoken about he identifies he’s a Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander man, he works in health, and he recently went to a health conference that was an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander conference. And he said for the whole time there, they were talked about Aboriginal health care and how to implement it in however not once did they mention during that. And these, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander leaders in health care wants to dimension that- to dimension our LGBTQIA+SB brothers and sisters and sister girls and brother boys that didn’t mention and he said, he felt very separated, that he can either be gay, or he can be Aboriginal and Torres Strait he felt like he couldn’t be both in that moment which is very sad, you know, it’s a very sad space to be

Chantelle Ellem 09:32

I’d actually really heartbreaking because it’s so challenging as it is like it’s- Yeah, have to segment his life to say well, we’ll just do it this part now and this part like it’s, that’s who he is, like-

Rianna Nisbet 09:42

They’re very putting [phonetic 09:43] it in the boxes.

Malcolm Tamwoy 09:44

Yeah, and I can also relate to the gentleman as well that was talking about because I identify as a gay man. So I’m gay. And um indigenous. So it’s really hard. Especially, I guess you have to be one or the other. So you, especially around family, so I can’t be myself around family members. So I have to be a strong black man. So I can’t be both. And it’s taboo because we don’t talk about it. We don’t talk about. At all it’s to me when I talk about it. So we always taught that when you get older, you get a job. [Unintelligible 10:31]. So that we’re always embedded with that.

Chantelle Ellem 10:00

Yeah. Can you tell me a bit more about your personal experience with Intersexuality? And how you came to understand more about it?

Malcolm Tamwoy 10:40

So I’ve been with my partner for about 12 years. And he’s actually- We’re in inter-racial relationships. So it is hard, really hard. Especially like, because we always taught I think I mentioned earlier that we will always taught marry your own kind. Marry your own kind, have kids to your own hide. We were never allowed to go outside. I guess that circle. You know, you have to marry black woman.

Chantelle Ellem 10:43

Yep.

Malcolm Tamwoy 10:48

So it was really hard, especially with me having a non Indigenous person. And I guess, in the community as well, like I did mention earlier, you have to be either one or the other. Like, especially like if I’m out and open with my partner I can’t be affectionate [phonetic 11:42] with him. You get judged.

Rianna Nisbet 11:46

[crosstalk] like that is- Yeah, a little bit.

Malcolm Tamwoy 11:49

A little bit. Yeah. So I can’t- We don’t hold hands, we’re not affectionate in public, it’s only behind close doors.

Chantelle Ellem 11:54

Oh, that’s heartbreaking.

Malcolm Tamwoy 11:56

Issue from my people as well, that can be very judgmental. I do have 30 year old kids as well, while my brother’s kids, and they’ve accepted my sexuality as well. And also my partner’s. So, like we mentioned earlier. It’s very accepting now, whereas in our day, it wasn’t.

Rianna Nisbet 12:18

It wasn’t. No, the younger ones are really on to it. I [crosstalk] really good.

Malcolm Tamwoy 12:23

And I think that was my biggest fear of losing the two kids for who I am. But they accepted me and my partner. So-

Chantelle Ellem 12:29

That’s beautiful. And Ria do you have personal experience with Intersexuality that you’d like to be able to talk to as well and how we- so we can understand it a little bit more.

Rianna Nisbet 12:38

So I guess. For me, mine more [phonetic 12:42] comes from Intersexuality from mental health- the mental health side. So as being an Aboriginal woman, when I fell pregnant with my daughter, it was not a nice relationship at the time. And I had quite a traumatic birth, which then triggered– I ended up with postpartum psychosis it was in– Back in the mid 2000s. No one talked about it. It was a hidden thing. Nobody talked about postnatal depression. I didn’t even know what was going on. None of my relatives could figure it out either. And so I guess they didn’t hide me away. But they hid the fact that I was struggling mentally. So they’d be like, oh you’ll get will get better Bob. You know, you just need more sleep or we’ll take the baby for the night. Just have some more sleep. You know, sleep wasn’t a problem. You know, I was living on basically coke to keep myself awake. I was treating myself horribly. I didn’t know what was going on. I eventually got the diagnosis.

Disclaimer: The content and views discussed in Feros Talks podcast episode are those of the individuals involved. They are not necessarily condoned by, or, are the views of Feros Care or its employees.